So I was surfing around on an electronics parts website today, looking at switches and thinking about what I expect Kitten would use as trap switches, and I come across a Keylock switch... So, if I recall correctly:

Traps can only be disarmed by someone who has the disarm skill, anyone else tinkering with said trap would result in it's detonation.

Locks can only be picked by someone who has the appropiate lock picking skill...

So if someone was to make a trap and the way to disable it was to turn the lock, would the skill required be lock picking or disarm trap? Would the person need both, or would simply lock picking be sufficient?

It is not terriably uncommon for traps to have only one means of disarming them, what if that one means is by turning the keylock?

I belive the way that the rules are written are such that you need to spend spiritual stamina AND manually disarm the trap for it to be disarmed, The way lock picking works is, if it's not an actual lock, you must spend stamina to unlock it, if it's an actual real word lock, you need to physically pick it.You cannot disarm a trap OR pick a lock without the approipate skill.

Lets pretend for a moment that Jane has the skills and all required tools to disarm a trap

Bob is an excellent lock pick artist and has all the tools he needs.

Jane and Bob come up upon a trap, and Jane determines that the ONLY way to disarm that trap safely would involve turning the keylock tumblers present in the front of the mechanism.. Jame doesn not have pick lock. Bob does not have disarm trap, and therefore, can't fiddle with the trap without it going off.

Who can disarm that trap?

In this case that's semantic handwaving. If the way to turn off the trap is with the lock, Bob defeats the lock. Would Bob need a special skill to open a door attached to a lock that he's picking? No.

That seems to be a reasonable assumption, it may also be worth noting, however, that lockpicks themselves MAY be included in a trap kit, they are useful for more than just picking locks, good for shimming through small cracks. I agree, however that simply because a trap kit may contain lock picks, does not mean the kit is called a lock pick set by in game terms and, as such, would only work for locks which are marked as part of the trap.

To disarm a trap (in the Spectrum system) you must have a TrapKit. You can either use Spiritual Stamina to 'automatically' disarm it in 60 seconds (called 'virtual disarm') or you can 'Actually' Disarm it, which costs no stamina but you must actually defeat the trap.

Starn/Mario can tell yo more about lockpicking, but I believe it works much the same way.

Also, it takes Spiritual Stamina to ARM a trap as well. This is to prevent people from setting dozens of traps in a few seconds.

Dwayne

Aww... ok.. Pity, I was just about to commision Starn and Kitten to do a joint effort to create the first key armed box.. Sure you can open it without the key, but you'll go boom. :P

I was just curious anyways, ideas bumping about in my head.

I was toying with many types of trap designs.

I was though working my way through the least complex to the most complex. As simple traps got approved and built I would try to get a new one but slightly more complex one to work...

One design I keep trying to design mentally was an oversized lock that inside had a button. The button represented hollow wax hemisphere filled with acid. You picking the lock if you push the button your hands get sprayed with acid. You open it normally with a key and you don't get burned because you don't trigger the trap.

Remember though any trap or lock must be defeatable with tools. Any trap before it can be brought into game must be approved by staff.

Traps & locks can either be virtual or physical.

A physical trap/lock must be manually defeated by the player. While attempting this it should be noted that strings may be cut/unhooked, battery clips may be disconnected. Wires may not be. The simple rule to remember for traps is that without tools a staff person should be able to undo the damage done to the rep.

A virtual trap/lock is a trap/lock that does not have a physical trigger/lock. It will have a Difficulty rating. That rating is the amount of spiritual stamina the person trying to defeat the trap must spend. That person must spend a minute roleplaying the picking/disarming. If a person spends stamina points beyond what is needed to disarm the trap each extra point spent will reduce the time needed to disarm the trap by 5 seconds to a minimum of 10 seconds.

Normal PC made locks have a difficulty ranging from 4 to 10 based on materials & quality of craftsmanship.
N-teraction traps don't have an official virtual disarm rating.
Spectrum style traps have a range from 4 to 13 based on materials & quality of construction.

Note an N-teraction style trap normally destroys everything in a small box/enclosure (no longer than 3 feet in any dimension) the trap is set in when the trap goes off. If a person manages to crawl completely into the box an n-teraction trap is set up in if the trap goes off the fool is destroyed instantly.

This is just scratching the surface about traps & locks. Trap tatics & strategy are conveluted.

Matt I'll give my opinion about your example in a bit.

-Mario-

My apologies to you, fagin.

Now that I finished dinner I'll resume my post.

I don't have the patience right now to dig out the specifics. The trap rules are scattered amongst multiple sections of the rules & staff rulings.

But I'll answer anyways.

I believe it is Matt's goal to have a box with a trap and a lock.

Matt wants to be able to get into the box without using the skill disarm traps when he uses the key.

My goal is to design a treasure box that has a lock & trap in it. The lock when unlocked used prevents the need to have the trap disarmed to open the box. In other words allows the lock user to bypass the trap. Since the trap is still active if the box is moved the trap will go off. (nudging bits of the trap in the box might still set off the trap till it is disarmed.) My preference is to use a type of trap that does not destroy the contents of the box if it goes off but that aspect of the trap hasn't been decided on. Anyways if the lock is smashed open then the trap would still be active.(open the box at your own risk.) I have a basic mental picture of how this could work and could draw out the rep if necessary.

Semantics with the lock/trap are important.

A physical lock must not actually hold the box shut. If magic is used to open the box or the ingame lock is destroyed then the box must be openable without a key. I don't believe there is currently any effects that could be used against a lock, shields & weapons yes but not a lock...

Normally one is required to have disarm traps skill (and tools) to manipulate parts of the trap. A tripline is considered part of the trap. It is refered to as an actuator under the spetrum rules.

Normally if somebody picks up a trapped item and carries it away the trap goes off. There are some exceptions to this rule.

There is a distinct difference between bypassing a trap & disarming it. For example I see a tripwire. I step over it. I avoided the trap but I did not diarm it. That trap is still active. It will still go off if I pick up the trap or pull the tripline.

In one trap example I read cutting the tripline and but not diconnecting the battery clip of a trap was not enough to disarm the trap but enough to get to the treasure inside(bypassing the trap) To do this option I still would need the trap disarm skill & tools.

And of course if I disarm it, I could then pick it up and carry it away...

By rules definition a trap must be disarmable by a person with the skill & the tools.

Unaccessable is different then undisarmable. A trap that is kept behind a locked door or in a locked box does not make it undisarmable.

So a trap that must have its attached lock picked to disarm the trap is unacceptable. (One is only required to have disarm traps & trap disarm tools to deal with a trap.)

Also a trap must be safe to the players oog. This must be considered with a physical trap design.

Last note, Fagin: I had roughly a dozen trap designs/recipies approved.(n-teraction type) The approved designs were of types that were common knowledge for my character's people. In addition to that my character encountered a few others types while adventuring. At one point it was ruled that any trap my character disarms my character could claim, refurbish and set elsewhere by spending one additional unit of material that went into its construction.

It was ruled that If I first pick a lock(or use the key) I can spend a full minute role-playing to remove the lock.

It was ruled that when one makes a lock one gets 3 keys with that lock. If one uses a unit of metal as the same type of the lock of better 3 more keys can be made.

It was ruled that Door locks can be made with the following features:
Openable without a key from one side of the door. (this is so players won't get trapped in the cabin.)
May be set up that the key from one door matches the key of another lock.
Auto-maticly lock when closed.

I remember getting some sort of approval of building locks using more materials (than normal) to get a higher difficulty rating to pick open. The increase of materials compared to the amount of increase to the difficulty progressed along a pascal's triange. (I can't remember the numbers right now and the computer it should be on is currently down.)

This post without drawings makes it difficult to explain myself fully.

If you have other questions I'll try to answer them.

Mario.

P.S. The traps/locks I am trying to design I believe use technology that would funtion within the tech limits of the isle. My designs mostly use kinetic energy to deliver its pain. My reps tend to be heavily physical with a simple mechanical means to close the electronic circuit or trigger a mousetrap. My rep designs take into consideration player safety.