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When is my item considered in game
Fandayen Offline
#1 Posted : Thursday, May 28, 2009 1:46:42 PM
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Just so people are aware of this and it does not come as a surprise.

"If you wish to bring an item into game, you must get out the tag and sign and date it for that event. It is considered to be carried by the character even if it is kept in a magical location, such as the effects created by Muses’ Whimsy or Inspiration of the Muses."

This is a direct quote from the rule book. So any item carried on the field in a Bag of Holding or Pocket Space should be marked off as being used for that event even if you never took it out of the bag, that includes the Bag itself. If you dont want it to expire do not carry the tag.

Jim
Varius Offline
#2 Posted : Thursday, May 28, 2009 11:20:57 PM

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Now, as I recall, Chris made a ruling that if you don't use it, it don't age... even if the tag is available to you.

In other words "it don't age until it has an In Game affect on the Game."

I believe he posted this on the old boards, but I am loathe to sift through all that history to find the one post... not even sure which forum it's in.

Anyway, I hope it stays that way. Think about this: If you have a nice shiney new widget for sale, it will be worth less and less as the events tick by even if you don't use it, because, after all, you can't sell it if it isn't there available to use and if it is there available to use, it ages. So every event, used or not, your wares will lose 1/6 of their value (1/9 if Tempered). Inside of three events (4.5 if tempered) you will just break even. After that, you'll have to sell at a loss.

No, I think "it don't age until it has an In Game affect on the Game" is a better and more logical way to go.

Just my two cents.


Dwayne
Assume no malice.
Assume no altruism.
Jesus Rodriguez Offline
#3 Posted : Thursday, May 28, 2009 11:45:54 PM

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My 2 cents

I think there should be a difference between "having it avaialbe" and having it in a magical pouch.

Dwayne makes a good point that for items that are strictly for sale it makes no sence to make an item ahead of time if it will age jsut because it is sitting in your cabin, but if your carrying it around, yes it should age as you have easy access to it when ever you may need it.

Just my opinion.

one other note i would make is it makes for better logistices that items for sale do not age as you can make them at times When scatt is less busy instead of under a deadline.
It's just a game.
Varius Offline
#4 Posted : Friday, May 29, 2009 1:28:41 AM

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Dave wrote:
My 2 cents

I think there should be a difference between "having it available" and having it in a magical pouch.

Dwayne makes a good point that for items that are strictly for sale it makes no sense to make an item ahead of time if it will age just because it is sitting in your cabin, but if you're carrying it around, yes it should age as you have easy access to it whenever you may need it.

Just my opinion.

one other note I would make is it makes for better logistics that items for sale do not age as you can make them at times when Scott is less busy instead of under a deadline.


Interesting compromise. May I suggest that, instead of 'in your cabin,' where it can be stolen and thus should be In Game, 'in the Peace Ward' is a better option? Then the 'anti-aging' effect can be a part of the Peace Ward, itself. I'd say that the item would have to start the event in the Peace Ward and then, if it leaves for any reason (thus being subject to theft) it is considered In Play and thus ages. Of course, if you use it while in the Peace Ward it should age as well (Duh).

Hm, this suggestion makes an even stronger case for a "Merchants' Row," where ever it may be (as long as it is within the Peace Ward).

And your point about Scott's schedule is well taken too. Pre-Event Production should be considered by all.


Dwayne
Assume no malice.
Assume no altruism.
Fandayen Offline
#5 Posted : Friday, May 29, 2009 8:49:46 AM
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If it is stored either in the peace ward or your cabin, I do not think that would be an issue as it is not available to you on the field. But if you carry it around with you in your pocket, bag of holding, pocket space, backpack, whatever. Then it should age.

Jim
Skik Offline
#6 Posted : Friday, May 29, 2009 9:25:35 AM

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I have to disagree with you on that one. I purchased, at a relatively high cost, a master quality trap disarming set, which I kept on my person. I then failed to see a trap for three events and saw some that someone else disarmed on the fourth. Spending guilda on something that you might or might not need during the course of an event gets a lot more painful if the clock keeps ticking. Same issue with lockpicks.

Speak to Spirits needs a component, but unless you are specifically told that you will need to speak to a spirit, do you bring it with you when you go into a mine? If you leave it in the peace ward so it doesn’t age and there is a spirit in the mine who might have information, you feel like an idiot. If you bring it with you and it ages, but there is no spirit, that would be another few guilda that just evaporates.

If you are a generalist and have a lot of different skills, you have to carry around a lot of different in game items to be able to use those skills. If all of those items are ticking away money…
Meyta Offline
#7 Posted : Friday, May 29, 2009 9:58:29 AM
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Have to admit - with my farming equipment and bee equipment, if there is a possibility it will be used, it is ageing. The Beehive is IG and ages whether or not I get honey, wax, bees or whathaveyou. The Smoker is nearby and can be brought IG if it is needed to smoke a hive. Then it ages.
The hoe is IG in spring and possibility of the fall - at times that I would need to hoe the garden. Then it ages. During the winter and times when I don't need it for planting or preparing the garden for planting, it is not ageing since it isn't being used. However, it is nearby. Have a feeling how this ages with crafting and production may somewhat be up to the player and their honesty.

Not all my items used for healing etc age, some I use, some are nearby just in case but they don't age.

Problem with the Bag of Holding is that item is IG if it is on the person on the field, thus all the items whether used or not are IG since they are supposedly in it. Least I think that is how it works!
Fandayen Offline
#8 Posted : Friday, May 29, 2009 10:00:58 AM
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That is how it is written in the rules if Chris wants to allow that items not used are not aged that is fine.

Jim
Meyta Offline
#9 Posted : Friday, May 29, 2009 10:04:01 AM
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Hmm..hopefully sometime he will get on these boards and clarify. I will ask to make sure I am doing this right. Had always assumed items not being used are not ageing.
stableyr Offline
#10 Posted : Friday, May 29, 2009 1:41:40 PM
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I'm not a member of plot staff so there is nothing official here, just my suggestions on how you might try to work this...

It seems like there may be a few separate issues here.
1. Do things wear out from use or passage of time?
2. Should you have to pay maintenance costs for things you don't use?
3. Are maintenance costs too high?

1. It seems that for an ease of use the rule needs to be that if it is "in game" then it counts against it's maintenance duration.
If you want the item to be accessible during the duration of the event then the item should age whether you use it or not.
If you want to take the time to store it in such a way that it does not deteriorate then at check in you have a staff member date an initial the back of the card (or in some way indicate it was not available to the player that event) and the tag stays in your folder. It's in storage, you can't access it in game but it doesn't deteriorate.

2. If the item is not available to be used then I don't think you should have to pay maintenance. If it's available to use then maintenance should apply.

3. If this is a big issue then the question is: Is the game enhanced or diminished by this dilemma?
Is it a matter of your character not living within their means -- I buy expensive things I want but can't really afford to maintain properly?
Is it a matter of your character wanting to be able to be too versatile -- I stock up on all the things we'll ever need for every contingency?
Is it a matter of the cost of an item vs the cost to maintain the item is out of wack?

I don't think you want the system to be based on the honesty of the player. Assuming that all the players are honest and have good intentions, some (if not many) of the players are not interested in this aspect of the game and simply do not know the rules well enough to play honestly. They are here to roleplay or to hit things and don't want to keep track of money and maintenance costs. This can lead to hard feelings out of game among people that are very well versed in the rules and scrupulous with regards to paying all the costs and those that are ignorant or uninterested in finance.

Richard
(Cpt. Moroni/Alma)
Crovel Offline
#11 Posted : Friday, May 29, 2009 1:57:00 PM

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stableyr wrote:

I don't think you want the system to be based on the honesty of the player. Assuming that all the players are honest and have good intentions, some (if not many) of the players are not interested in this aspect of the game and simply do not know the rules well enough to play honestly. They are here to roleplay or to hit things and don't want to keep track of money and maintenance costs. This can lead to hard feelings out of game among people that are very well versed in the rules and scrupulous with regards to paying all the costs and those that are ignorant or uninterested in finance.


I'm sorry, but if you do not base things on the honesty of the players then 99% of LARPs become unplayable. Yes there will always be that guy where you look at them and say in your head, "Hey, he hasn't bought a sword in like 10 events, what's up with that." But for the most part LARPers are honest (OOG at least, IG some of us can be evil bastards >:-] )
Crovel
Mage's Guild Prelate
stableyr Offline
#12 Posted : Friday, May 29, 2009 3:15:14 PM
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I agree with what you are saying about the game in general -- taking hits, limiting their actions to things their characters can actually do -- in other words it's fine to rely on the honesty of players actions. It becomes a problem to let players inactions give them an advantage. You don't want ignorance or lack of interest to be rewarded.
Varius Offline
#13 Posted : Friday, May 29, 2009 5:54:35 PM

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"Oh, I forgot" is way to common an excuse. Not necessarily in this LARP but across the LARP spectrum? Yeah.


Dwayne
Assume no malice.
Assume no altruism.
Zhinn Offline
#14 Posted : Saturday, May 30, 2009 8:54:00 AM
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Alright - let's clear this up once and for all :

=========================================================

As per the rulebook :

Page 22 of the old PDF file "Chapter 2 - Isles Rules"
Any item not being used at an event must be kept in a specifically out of game location, such as a specified trunk, foot locker or car. These items are not ‘checked in’, not considered to be ‘in’ Asylum, and cannot be brought into game during the event. If you wish to bring an item into game, you must get out the tag and sign and date it for that event. It is
considered to be carried by the character even if it is kept in a magical location, such as the effects created by Muses’ Whimsy or Inspiration of the Muses.

Now, this means - if you want access to an item - you should date the card with the event date.
This simply shows that it was "present" at the event ...
Please note - this paragrap says nothing about "duration" or "wear". This is only about having access to an item.


Page 21 of the olf PDF file :Chapter 2 - Isles Rules"
Item Duration, Maintenance, and Repair
All crafted items, unless noted otherwise, last for a base duration of 2 events for an Apprentice quality item, 4 events for a Journeyman quality item, and 6 events for a Master quality item. You must mark off 1 event of duration on the item card at the end of any event where the item was used. You do not need to mark off duration for an item tag, such as a spare weapon, that was never attached to a phys rep or used for any effect during the event.

So, by this paragraph : When you "use" and item (even if only for 1 use during an entire event), you then mark off a duration box.
An item will last forever if not actually "used" in game.


By definition : If you place tags in a Bag of Holding - the Bag of Holding 'ages'. You are making use of it's effect to carry the tags.
It does not matter if you ever take anything <out> of the bag - by putting something <In> to the Bag, you have used it for that event.

-Chris
Varius Offline
#15 Posted : Saturday, May 30, 2009 11:40:18 AM

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Ah. much better. Fits in exactly with what I thought.

The confusion seems to stem from marking the tag. Everyone seems to assume that marking the tag is the same a ticking off a duration. I admit to being confused on that point too but you just cleared that up, Chris.


Thank you very much,


Dwayne
Assume no malice.
Assume no altruism.
Althea Offline
#16 Posted : Saturday, May 30, 2009 1:27:07 PM

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There is not enough room to date and initial items for accessibility on seldom used items and still leave room for noting when they age.
I feel that it would also be extremely confusing to determine by looking at the back as to how aged an item is when there are many notes indicating availability.

I have no questions, issues or problems about aging an item when the item was used during the event. Is there a better way to indicate that the item is available?

Althea Chegari Von Brumbach Clan Che'garre'warre, Family Che'gari, Master Brewer
Creater of the Best Whiskey in all the Isles
Matriarch of the Dogrini
Guardian, Merchant's Guild
Varius Offline
#17 Posted : Saturday, May 30, 2009 3:26:21 PM

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Yeah, simple.

If you have THE TAG with you, it is AVAILABLE.

If you do not have THE TAG with you the item is UNAVAILABLE.

But that doesn't seem to satisfy anyone....



Dwayne
Assume no malice.
Assume no altruism.
Fandayen Offline
#18 Posted : Saturday, May 30, 2009 8:36:38 PM
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Ok then we wont hear any cheese about I am just carrying the tag I dont have the item with me crap then. So when you get cut down and searched, any tag on you is available to be stolen cause it is on you.

This is a general statement in no way am I saying this about any person in particular. Dont want any misunderstanding about it.

Jim
Salvadore Offline
#19 Posted : Saturday, May 30, 2009 8:54:21 PM
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And yes, Fandayen will be cutting down people with his dagger...to loot their stuff. Cuz he's that guy.
Salvadore Diaz
C.E.O Sweet Rock Mining Consortium
Merchant Guildmaster
Asylum Colony
Master Bladesmith, founder, Wood/bonesmith, Solutio, Conjuctio
Fine alchemy, weapons and firearms for sale. No job is too small, no fee too big!
Zhinn Offline
#20 Posted : Saturday, May 30, 2009 10:28:03 PM
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If you have a tag on you, and do not have bag of holding or pocket space -
you MUST have a phys-rep.

I expect everyone to be obeying the rules on this.

See the discussion about these effects for details.

-Chris
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