The Isles
Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Log In | Register

3 Pages<123>
Tag as favorite
Casting Wizardry In Game - A refresher ...
Ceradaya Offline
#21 Posted : Thursday, June 17, 2010 2:54:52 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Medals:

Joined: 9/24/2008
Posts: 189

Thanks: 6 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Based on Dwayne's post, it would appear that Healer's Row has been violating that rule for 5 years, as they are usually less than 2' from each other.

As a healer I'd love to do a shout out heal like the Morro (not sure how it's spelt) do on the battlefield. Alas, we are going to have to make do with splints until you can come back to the peace ward and the tavern. Healer's are squishy and not always well protected.
Zhinn Offline
#22 Posted : Thursday, June 17, 2010 7:25:25 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Medals:

Joined: 4/14/2008
Posts: 380

Thanks: 0 times
Was thanked: 9 time(s) in 5 post(s)
No, Healer's Row has been fine.

The rule is a minimum of 2' for your ritual area -
not seperated by 2'. You can be edge to edge, just technically
not overlapping. I don;t honestly care if the edges of two
ritual fields overlap an edge incidentally - but the intent is
that they do not.

Kendra is exactly right - as one of the original rules people
she should know ! As the rulebook states, you only need to
delineate the area that the ritual will take effect in. It may
be within a circle drawn in the dirt, or you can walk the edges
of an entire room - thereby delineating the room as your ritual
field.

Rules Quote :
To cast a spell, you must first delineate a ritual space by laying down a cloth, making a shape out of rope, or
otherwise clearly marking out a small area with physical items, though these items do not need to be in-game
crafted items. If you do not mark out a ritual space with items, you may still delineate a ritual area by
spending one uninterrupted minute to physically mark out a space by pacing the length and breadth of a room,
marking lines in the dirt, and so forth.


The caveats to declaring an entire room as your ritual field -
two casters cannot share a field. If a field is placed over an inactive
field, it takes precident and the old field is unusable. Note, it
says 'inactive'. You cannot interrupt as wizardy casting by simply
laying down a ritual cloth over another caster's ritual field ...

If you have any questions, I really suggest you read the part about
Wizardry in Chapter 2 - Isles Rules, of the rulebook. It is pretty
clear, I think !

-Chris
Kitten Offline
#23 Posted : Thursday, June 17, 2010 11:35:31 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Medals:

Joined: 5/12/2008
Posts: 212

Thanks: 0 times
Was thanked: 0 time(s) in 0 post(s)
Ceradaya wrote:
Healer's are squishy and not always well protected.



I'm a healer and I'm not squishy!!! :D *pain in the ass*


Captain Kitten
Den Mother Kitten of Tekiofunousha
All those refugees? Yeah, my problem.
"Oooh! Oooh! I'll F-IX it!"
Origin: 377th Omega Reef Marines

ArthurMacBride Offline
#24 Posted : Friday, June 18, 2010 8:00:55 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Medals:

Joined: 5/12/2008
Posts: 381

Thanks: 0 times
Was thanked: 0 time(s) in 0 post(s)
Some healers may be squishy - I'd not count Ceradaya among them...

*A* number of times you've saved Arthur's kilt-clad backside many times had nothing to do with your ritual cloth!


*NOTE: this was a grevious editing error on my part

correction is above
Omega 377th Reef Marines
Lance Corporal

"Here's to women, whiskey, and war..."
-The Whiskey Bards


Ceradaya Offline
#25 Posted : Friday, June 18, 2010 8:02:25 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Medals:

Joined: 9/24/2008
Posts: 189

Thanks: 6 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Zhinn wrote:

The rule is a minimum of 2' for your ritual area -
not seperated by 2'. You can be edge to edge, just technically
not overlapping.

-Chris


Ah this makes more sense. When I read it, it was translating to me differently (sometimes the brain translation doesn't always work). Thank you for clarifying this for me.

@ Kitten....I probably should have added "notoriously" to my statement. I honestly forgot you do healing.
Galinda Offline
#26 Posted : Friday, June 18, 2010 8:23:32 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Medals:

Joined: 5/12/2008
Posts: 137

Thanks: 0 times
Was thanked: 0 time(s) in 0 post(s)
I've been not so good at spreading out my healing cloth... just tossing it haphazardly on the ground. I'll make a point of paying more attention to how I set up next time.

For me, any mistakes I make rules wise are due to forgetting in the heat of the moment. Thankfully that's a rare occurance and I try not to repeat the same mistake twice.

~Laura
Ximbatik of the Elosi
Varius Offline
#27 Posted : Friday, June 18, 2010 9:44:48 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Medals:

Joined: 5/2/2008
Posts: 1,060
Location: NH

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
I'm a healer, too.

At my beefiest, it takes 29 pts of damage to take me out.

I wouldn't call that 'squishy.'

LOL. Just givin' ya shit.

Dwayne
Assume no malice.
Assume no altruism.
Ceradaya Offline
#28 Posted : Friday, June 18, 2010 2:01:39 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Medals:

Joined: 9/24/2008
Posts: 189

Thanks: 6 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Thank you, Dwayne. Now please don't give me any more.
Varius Offline
#29 Posted : Monday, June 21, 2010 7:40:57 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Medals:

Joined: 5/2/2008
Posts: 1,060
Location: NH

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
I'd like to point out that the rules say you must have your Grimoire open to the correct page. It says nothing about needing light to read it.

You don't actually have to be able to read it.

However...

When I was 10 or 11 I was taught to read Braille by a blind friend of my dad's so I could play cards with him (they were blank). It wouldn't take much to brush up. Can my Grimoire be in braille?

Also, can I use glow ink if I want?


*Captain Loophole LIVES*


Dwayne
Assume no malice.
Assume no altruism.
Fandayen Offline
#30 Posted : Wednesday, August 25, 2010 4:26:57 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Medals:

Joined: 4/20/2008
Posts: 81

Thanks: 0 times
Was thanked: 0 time(s) in 0 post(s)
2 issues.

I dont believe it says the ritual field must be on the ground. SO I dont see a problem with draping a ritual cloth across someone and myself. It also does not say that the cloth must be layed out flat or anything like that. The field is in contact with both the caster and the target, it still delineates the area of the ritual casting. Now I dont get benefit of any items that would normally have to be placed on the field. And I dont believe it says your Grimoire must be on or in your ritual field but it must be out and open to the correct page.

But I will leave this up to Chris to comment on?

Dwayne, the only problem you run into with the braille I believe it says it must be open so that if someone comes by they can see what page your grimoire is open to and so that means there must be light for them to see it by and printed text.

Jim
Darkstrider Offline
#31 Posted : Saturday, August 28, 2010 6:23:44 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Medals:

Joined: 4/13/2008
Posts: 288

Thanks: 0 times
Was thanked: 0 time(s) in 0 post(s)
All right, now I have to ask:

Does your spellbook need to be in English? I love how Paja casts spells in Japanese, it adds a ton of flavor to the game. If, say, I were to do spells in Latin for Isles 2, would there need to be a translation on the page?

...I ask because I translated all the N*** spells into Latin many years ago, just so no one would steal my spellbook.
--Nara Darkstrider
Mercenary Guildmaster
markesh Offline
#32 Posted : Saturday, August 28, 2010 9:17:00 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Medals:

Joined: 6/16/2008
Posts: 133
Location: For TIPS, please contact c/o 'metawombat'

Thanks: 0 times
Was thanked: 0 time(s) in 0 post(s)
I would also be interested in the answer to Nara's question. I have been ASSUMING that it's no problem, given the scraps of this and that heard on the field.
Markesh
Superintendent of Operations & President
New Avinnia & Western Railway Company

The most important object of States, and of both external and internal Trade, is to create a need for the construction and management of Rail Roads.

- with apologies to Thomas Tredgold
Charter of the British Institution of Civil Engineers
Varius Offline
#33 Posted : Saturday, August 28, 2010 4:05:10 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Medals:

Joined: 5/2/2008
Posts: 1,060
Location: NH

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Fandayen wrote:
2 issues.

I dont believe it says the ritual field must be on the ground. SO I dont see a problem with draping a ritual cloth across someone and myself. It also does not say that the cloth must be layed out flat or anything like that. The field is in contact with both the caster and the target, it still delineates the area of the ritual casting. Now I dont get benefit of any items that would normally have to be placed on the field. And I dont believe it says your Grimoire must be on or in your ritual field but it must be out and open to the correct page.

But I will leave this up to Chris to comment on?

Dwayne, the only problem you run into with the braille I believe it says it must be open so that if someone comes by they can see what page your grimoire is open to and so that means there must be light for them to see it by and printed text.

Jim


Here is the section on "Grimoire:"

The Rules wrote:
The Grimoire
Your Grimoire is a book or notebook that includes in writing all details about each spell and enchantment you have the skill to cast. Each spell is a separate skill that you purchase with XP. This Grimoire is not an in-game crafted item that you must purchase: it is a system aid to help handle the complexity of the rules for individual spells. For each spell you can cast, the Grimoire must include all necessary system information for the spell, including the time it takes to cast, the stamina cost, any possible bonuses, the spell’s result and any Verbal that should be called at the spell’s completion, and so forth. All system information for each spell will be provided by staff; you may use a printed copy as provided, format the staff version as you wish before an event, or copy the information by hand if you prefer.

In addition to the system mechanics information for each spell, the Grimoire must also include a rough description of the ritual that you will perform to cast the spell. Staff may provide sample rituals that you can use if you choose, but you are encouraged to create your own rituals to be appropriate to your character. While your grimoire does not need to include an exact description of every detail of your ritual for a spell, it should include firm enough notes or description that an observer would be able to tell you were performing the ritual in the Grimoire. Within the limits of the Accelerant system and the limits of spellcasting described below in ‘Using Wizardry Skills’, your rituals could include speech, song, movement and gestures, manipulation of items, or any other actions you desire.
The physical Grimoire does exist in game, and other characters may use information they gain by seeing it, such as noticing what spell page you have opened it to. However, the Grimoire has no in-game value; it represents the mage’s understanding of his or her magic, and can easily be replaced. Like the out-of-game boffer weapons that players must possess to be able to fight, a player’s Grimoire should not be stolen or damaged in an effort to interfere with their character’s abilities.


I've highlighted sections in green.

"...it should include firm enough notes or description that an observer would be able to tell you were performing the ritual in the Grimoire."

I think this may be where you are getting the idea that an observer should be able to seeyour Grimoire. But it does not say that. I read it as the observer would "be able to tell you were performing the ritual in the Grimoire." Nothing more. They may associate your actions with the book or even the page. "Observing" does not have to be "seeing." There are four other senses.

"The physical Grimoire does exist in game, and other characters may use information they gain by seeing it, such as noticing what spell page you have opened it to. "

The word "may" tells me that there could be circumstances which prevent the deed from happening. The obvious choice here is that they did not understand the language/code (latin/braile) but an even more obvious reason is that they cannot percieve the information. I can't read without my glasses. That means I have as much information available to me (as concerns the Grimoire) as a blind man. And we are all blind in the dark.

Haruko's spells are, indeed, in Japanese - transliterated into English lettering. I also believe ther is a bit of Spanish thrown in there. She speaks like seven languages or something.

Using her as the precedent, I'd say your Latin Grimoire is fine. Thus, so should my Braille Grimoire because it is just a code - a simple substitution. I believe the issue is about the light.

Here is the section on "Using Wizardry Skills:"

The Rules wrote:
Using Wizardry Skills
To cast a spell, you must first delineate a ritual space by laying down a cloth, making a shape out of rope, or otherwise clearly marking out a small area with physical items, though these items do not need to be in-game crafted items. If you do not mark out a ritual space with items, you may still delineate a ritual area by spending one uninterrupted minute to physically mark out a space by pacing the length and breadth of a room, marking lines in the dirt, and so forth. You do not have to make any verbal comments or obvious gestures while pacing the area, but you cannot pace an area to mark it if another ritual space is active anywhere within the area you are pacing to mark. Using items to mark the ‘field’, or ritual area, is usually preferable because of its speed. A ritual space ‘field’ must be a minimum of approximately 2’ in diameter, with a maximum area of 10’ or one small room. Ritual fields cannot overlap. You cannot lay a ritual field over the edge of another active ritual field. If you lay out your ritual field over another inactive field, the inactive field area is negated. If you pace an area or room to mark a field, and leave line of sight of that ‘marked’ area, it becomes an inactive area and you must repace it in order to use it as a ritual space again.

Once you have delineated your field, you must set any ritual components you wish to use in the ritual upon the field, and open your Grimoire to the correct page for the spell you are casting. You must have the herbal component for the spell on your person or on your field. You spend the required time performing the ritual actions described in your Grimoire for the spell, and as soon as you complete the ritual duration, call the appropriate effect verbal and spend the required stamina.

You must be in contact with your field the entire duration of the ritual, and your field may not overlap the field of another caster. If the ritual has a target character or item, that target must also be in contact with your field for the entire ritual duration. Your hands must be free to cast any ritual: you may not have your arms bound, and you may not be holding any items in your hands at any time during the ritual that are not part of the ritual as described in your Grimoire. You may not cast a ritual if both of your arms are rendered unusable (such as through the Maim effect), though you may cast if only one arm is usable. You may cancel the ritual at any time, and do not expend the stamina cost until the ritual is complete and has taken effect. If you are interrupted, whether by being struck by a weapon or packet, taking any item into your hands which is not part of your ritual, losing contact with your field, or your target losing contact with your field, the stamina and any components that would be consumed are not lost, but you must start the spell over again from the beginning. Your target may use any game skills during that ritual that do not require them leaving contact with your field or interrupting your concentration.

For the system information for casting all Wizardry spells, see Chapter 5: Wizardry.


"Laying down a cloth" is the phrase. You can lay a cloth down on the ground or on a table or on a chair. I see no reason why you couldn't lay one down on an arm or a shoulder. However, it also says the it has to be at least 2' in diameter. (The 10' room thing is probably a typo and is probably "10'x10'" or 100 ft².) When dropped on an arm it no longer has that area. If you can drape why not fold it down to 1"x1" and tape it to your writs thus creating mobile touch casting. Notice the description does not mention mobility. That fact and the continuous use of the word "area" leads me to believe that the ritual area is meant to be immobile.

But GITD ink is good?


Dwayne
Assume no malice.
Assume no altruism.
Zhinn Offline
#34 Posted : Sunday, August 29, 2010 4:04:17 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Medals:

Joined: 4/14/2008
Posts: 380

Thanks: 0 times
Was thanked: 9 time(s) in 5 post(s)
The Rules wrote:
Using Wizardry Skills
To cast a spell, you must first delineate a ritual space by laying down a cloth, making a shape out of rope, or otherwise clearly marking out a small area with physical items, though these items do not need to be in-game crafted items. If you do not mark out a ritual space with items, you may still delineate a ritual area by spending one uninterrupted minute to physically mark out a space by pacing the length and breadth of a room, marking lines in the dirt, and so forth. You do not have to make any verbal comments or obvious gestures while pacing the area, but you cannot pace an area to mark it if another ritual space is active anywhere within the area you are pacing to mark. Using items to mark the ‘field’, or ritual area, is usually preferable because of its speed. A ritual space ‘field’ must be a minimum of approximately 2’ in diameter, with a maximum area of 10’ or one small room. Ritual fields cannot overlap. You cannot lay a ritual field over the edge of another active ritual field. If you lay out your ritual field over another inactive field, the inactive field area is negated. If you pace an area or room to mark a field, and leave line of sight of that ‘marked’ area, it becomes an inactive area and you must repace it in order to use it as a ritual space again.

Once you have delineated your field, you must set any ritual components you wish to use in the ritual upon the field, and open your Grimoire to the correct page for the spell you are casting. You must have the herbal component for the spell on your person or on your field. You spend the required time performing the ritual actions described in your Grimoire for the spell, and as soon as you complete the ritual duration, call the appropriate effect verbal and spend the required stamina.

You must be in contact with your field the entire duration of the ritual, and your field may not overlap the field of another caster. If the ritual has a target character or item, that target must also be in contact with your field for the entire ritual duration. Your hands must be free to cast any ritual: you may not have your arms bound, and you may not be holding any items in your hands at any time during the ritual that are not part of the ritual as described in your Grimoire. You may not cast a ritual if both of your arms are rendered unusable (such as through the Maim effect), though you may cast if only one arm is usable. You may cancel the ritual at any time, and do not expend the stamina cost until the ritual is complete and has taken effect. If you are interrupted, whether by being struck by a weapon or packet, taking any item into your hands which is not part of your ritual, losing contact with your field, or your target losing contact with your field, the stamina and any components that would be consumed are not lost, but you must start the spell over again from the beginning. Your target may use any game skills during that ritual that do not require them leaving contact with your field or interrupting your concentration.

For the system information for casting all Wizardry spells, see Chapter 5: Wizardry.




I would say that we have a "happy medium" clearly spelled out here.


It says that you must lay out any ritual components on the field, and that the caster and target must touch the field for the entire duration of the casting. So, "by the book" - you may actually cast a wizardry just having your field draped over your arm. However, the target must also be touching it, and you may not use any ritual components to reduce the casting cost (i.e. you will pay the full cost to cast - no reduction of stamina cost. So, you may indeed cast with your field held "waiter-style".
I will clarify right now :
You may not affix any ritual components to your field. The spirit of the rules gives a bonus to acting out the ritual perparartion of setting out items to assist your casting. To simply lay out a field with things attached to it violates the spirit of this aspect of game play, and therefore is not allowable.

-Chris


(( PS - this rule also actually clarifies that rings, jewelry and such that are used as rit. comps. also need to placed on the field for use. I think this makes some sense - it roleplays the "preparation" aspeects of casting. Many people wear jewelry on a day to day basis, but every now and then you stop and reflect upon what the item means to you : Who gave it to you, Why you got it, etc. On those moments when you take a minute and consider the value of the item - you sort of "reconnect" with it for a moment. I think the same aspect of "attunement" applies here - when you lay out the items you get the effects / bonuses. My call. ))
Varius Offline
#35 Posted : Sunday, August 29, 2010 9:01:03 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Medals:

Joined: 5/2/2008
Posts: 1,060
Location: NH

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Chris wrote:

I will clarify right now :
You may not affix any ritual components to your field. The spirit of the rules gives a bonus to acting out the ritual perparartion of setting out items to assist your casting. To simply lay out a field with things attached to it violates the spirit of this aspect of game play, and therefore is not allowable.

-Chris


Curses! Foiled again!

Chris wrote:

(( PS - this rule also actually clarifies that rings, jewelry and such that are used as rit. comps. also need to placed on the field for use. I think this makes some sense - it roleplays the "preparation" aspects of casting. Many people wear jewelry on a day to day basis, but every now and then you stop and reflect upon what the item means to you : Who gave it to you, Why you got it, etc. On those moments when you take a minute and consider the value of the item - you sort of "reconnect" with it for a moment. I think the same aspect of "attunement" applies here - when you lay out the items you get the effects / bonuses. My call. ))[/size]


So we have to take the ring/necklace/circlet OFF OF OUR BODY and place it on the ritual field to get the benefit? What if our entire character phys-rep (our body) is on the field?

I think the spirit of making the component into a piece of jewelry was to make it easier for the caster to include them in the ritual by making them, eccentially a part of their body.

I think more discussion is in order.


Dwayne
Assume no malice.
Assume no altruism.
Zhinn Offline
#36 Posted : Monday, August 30, 2010 10:26:30 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Medals:

Joined: 4/14/2008
Posts: 380

Thanks: 0 times
Was thanked: 9 time(s) in 5 post(s)
Nope - no discussion needed.

Still need to place the item on the ritual field.
Just because the item happens to be something like a ring or item of
jewlery does not make it any different from other ritual items that
are not wearable. They all must follow the same rules.

The obvious benefit to a piece of jewlery or a ring is that
you won't be fumbling around in a pouch or pocket to find it ...

Varius Offline
#37 Posted : Tuesday, August 31, 2010 12:20:06 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Medals:

Joined: 5/2/2008
Posts: 1,060
Location: NH

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Not trying to be argumentative here but sometimes symantics are important.

If I am wearing a ring and holding my field with that hand, how is the ring not on the field?

Again, not looking to pick a fight, just looking at the logic...


Dwayne
Assume no malice.
Assume no altruism.
JJMarika Offline
#38 Posted : Tuesday, August 31, 2010 9:28:06 AM
Rank: Newbie

Medals:

Joined: 5/6/2008
Posts: 8

Thanks: 0 times
Was thanked: 0 time(s) in 0 post(s)
Varius wrote:

If I am wearing a ring and holding my field with that hand, how is the ring not on the field?


The ring is not 'on' the field because the GM of the game has clarified 'on' the field to mean 'not on your hand/body/whatever, but only lying on the field'.

JJ
Zhinn Offline
#39 Posted : Wednesday, September 01, 2010 4:53:01 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Medals:

Joined: 4/14/2008
Posts: 380

Thanks: 0 times
Was thanked: 9 time(s) in 5 post(s)
I clarified this with Dwayne at the Bardic last night.

My call stands as : Any item used to reduce the stamina cost of casting a ritual
must be placed on the ritual cloth / field, and must remain there until the ritual
is done. This represents your effort to focus / reattune the items to assist you.
I do not wish to give any particular benefits to something just becasue it is wearable,
therefore, any and all component items must be placed on the field to be used.


-Chris

PS : Thank you JJ !


Varius Offline
#40 Posted : Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:58:06 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Medals:

Joined: 5/2/2008
Posts: 1,060
Location: NH

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
First, I understand Chris's position.

Second, I still believe that a worn ring is on the field if you are holding the field with that hand. Just as I believe that my spiked boot is on your throat if my foot, which is in the boot, is standing on your throat.

Third, JJ, there is not one player here who needs anyone to remind them that Chris is the GM and therefore has the final say in the way things work. So, you see, there really is no reason for you to ever do so again. Unless, of course, you just want to be annoying.

As for the ruling, we discussed it in person and we both fully understand each other's reasoning. However, as Chris feels it would be a better balance for the game to remove all jewlery from the casters' persons that will be used for a ritual, I bow to his wisdom.

We all have to follow his rulings but we don't have to like or agree with them - or even "shut up" about them.

Good luck to all you casters ou there! See ou at the event!

;-)


Dwayne
Assume no malice.
Assume no altruism.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
3 Pages<123>
Tag as favorite
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

YAFPro Theme Created by Jaben Cargman (Tiny Gecko)
Powered by YAF | YAF © 2003-2009, Yet Another Forum.NET