Read ...

But in fairness, I am witholding comment until players speak up ...
You know my thoughts Dwayne ...

-Chris

I think there needs to be something that makes an apprentice weapon worthwhile other then "I need something in a pinch and I don't care the cost".

It seems to me that you're making an assumption that is not supported by game or real-world reality in assuming that the cost for an item that lasts x% as long as another has its price multiplied by that same x%.

As I recall, the IG 'standard pricing' is instead more like (materials cost) + 10% for apprentice, (materials cost) + 25% for journeyman, (materials cost) + 50% for master. (Exact percentages may differ -- I'm not consulting my notes here.) So the price for an apprentice item will never be less than the materials cost because it is not in fact based on the price of a master item minus 2/3 because of the duration difference.

Seems to me that's vaguely how the real world works too. You pay a base amount for the item itself, regardless of the quality/duration. Boots that last ten years may only cost twice the amount of boots that last one year. Or you can pay up front for two years worth of a service or a subscription and get a much lower total cost than paying a month-to-month fee. People still buy boots that will only last one year, maybe because they don't have the cash to shell out the higher cost right now for the ten year boots.

For most items, also, duration is not the only difference. (For some it is, true. But not for weapons, magic components/ritual items, tools, etc.) And for the cases where duration is the only difference, I feel a 3/4/5 difference would be too little for the difference in skill cost between the levels.

I agree that it would be nice if there were more of a use for apprentice skills. Originally, the intention was that you ought to be able to make some money with them, esp. apprentice artisan skills. Honestly, I think the way to make it so that it was worthwhile to have more than one person with a crafting skill would be to limit how much use of a single skill a single person could get per event; but that would be a major change from the current system, one that would take some serious thought of how to best implement, and certainly not one I think ought to be considered during the remainder of the current campaign.

-Kendra

I'm looking at this primarily from an OOG rules/system perspective, and from there I do disagree with this one part. Any skill in a larp should have a value. Otherwise, the game designers/staff should not make it available as a skill PCs can buy. There is an implicit promise that spending xp on a skill will at least have a chance of letting you do something during the life of the game that you would not have been able to otherwise.

By that standard, apprentice crafting skills of course do have value -- if nothing else, they allow you to make stuff you need or can use, without you paying other people for them to make the stuff for you.

But I think you may have just meant that apprentice gear should not be valuable, i.e. having a high value, and I pretty much agree with you there. There are some cases where I think particular types of apprentice crafting skills should be more valuable than they are, in order to have any value at all, but across the board I don't think apprentice crafting skills need a boost at the expense of master skills.

-Kendra

The only comment I would add :

Keep in mind that this discussion covers <all> crafted items : Weapons, Armor, and Misc.

While apprentice weapons and armor is not really worthwile except in an emergency,
having an apprentice level ritual aid-item is probably worth more.

Crafted "artisan" items are for the most part cheaper than thier weapon and armor
counterparts. Spending some guilda for apprentice level items like that is far more
likely than spending on apprentice weapons and armor.

---

Unless you come into game with advanced skills, when buying a <new> skill,
you start at Apprentice Level. As I have said before, Apprentice level craftsmen
really should not have an advantage. That is why you spend points to get better,
and don't just branch out and buy apprentice level in everything ...

I have held off any input for a while, I will add my .02 for now :

I honestly do not feel that there needs to be, not <should> there be any particular
benefit to apprentice level crafting. It is better than nothing - that is it.
Any smart player will NOT buy apprentice level items of any great cost,
unless it is the only option they have. The simple truth is, every crafter has to
start somewhere, and apprentice level is that starting point.

The goal of the game, and all LARP's, is to improve your character.

-Chris

Sorta.

The current markups seem to be around 25%/50%/100% but the duration of the items does not justify that kind of markup.

With the durations set at 2/4/6 the 'markup' for a Journeyman item should be +33% over materials costs and (here is my point) the markDOWN for an Apprentice item should be -33%! The fact that the duration of the Apprentice item is so low makes it actuall less valuable than the materials it is made of! You'd be better off just selling the refined materials directly.

But, by changing the durations to 3/4/5 and keeping the notion that a master quality item should be valued at twice the cost of materials, you change that dynamic so that Apprentice items can be markedup instead of down.

The new way that we will be test playing vastly over rates the value of APP/JMAN items and does not take the duration of an item into account at all.

My immediate suggestion to everyone is to learn a ton of Apprentice crafting skills and sell the junk to tourists and locals for these vastly and artificially inflated prices as quickly as you can before they figure it out ;-)


Dwayne

Oh, geeze!

White/off white t-shirts with pictures of buckles and straps down the back (instead of on the front) like a straight jacket!

OMG! What a great advertisement for the game!

Jump on that, Chris!


Dwayne