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Playtest : Sept 2009 : Calculating Empire Contact Prices
Zhinn Offline
#1 Posted : Wednesday, September 09, 2009 9:52:10 AM
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Alright folks !

In an effort to get something in place for the notion of
"Government Contract" prices, we are going to be trying
to use the basic numbers orginally put forth in the rulebook.

Our costs will be mased upon two factors :
The production chart listings for Production Cost and Artistic Value.
And a "craftsman markup" of 1/3/5 guilda for apprentice, journeyman, or master.

====================================================

The basic value of an item, when dealing with The Empire,
will be equal to the Production Cost total in Guilda, plus the craftsman markup
for <all> craftsmen who worked on the item. In the case of some items, it
requires more than one craft skill to make, so there can be multiple markups.

If you are making an artisan item - meaning most things not armor or weapons -
compare the Artistic Value and the Production Value and use the higher number.

Sounds confusing ? Not really ...

Example #1 : An Artisan Item

Take your basic Copper Cup.

The Empire is looking to stock up a bit, and puts a bid out for 10 apprentice grade copper cups.
For this item, they don't care about quality - they just want 10 cups to be given to needy casters.

To make a Cup, it takes
2 units of metal - so for a Copper Cup, it is 2 units of copper.

2 units of Copper require 4 SU to produce.

To figure the end value of said Cups, the Empire does as follows :

As this is an Artisan Item, compare the Production Cost vs Artistic Value.
For copper, that is Production Cost = 2 per unit, Artistic Value = 4 per unit.

So, we take 4, times the number fo units, giving us "8", and add in the craftsman
markup - in this case "1" for Apprentice grade. That means the Empire Contract
will offer 9 guilda per apprentice copper cup.



Example #2 : A non-artisan item

The Empire is seeking to buy some swords for the garrison.
They want apprentice quality weapons, these are just for the militia after all (???)

They specify Iron blades w/ wooden handles, and the offer is calculated as follows :

7 units if Iron, 1 unit of wood, 1 unit of leather : total SU needed per sword = 33 SU.

These items are not artisan items, so they use the Production Values,
so each sword has a basic value of 33 guilda. Add in the craftman mark up for
2 apprentice craftsman (bladesmith, bonesmith) - gives a total of 35 guilda per sword.



Example #3 : A "good" sword

The Empire seeks a presentation sword, and is looking for a Master Quality Longsword,
Steel Blade, Wooden Handle, with the Master Bonus to Disarm.

Total SU for the components : 40
Craftsman Markup : 5 per craftsman, total of 10
Final Cost of Blade : 50 Guilda.

==================================
==================================

Now, let me say right off the top : This is a playtest.

We were seeking a method to have a fixed price calculation that we could use to
figure what The Empire would offer when contracting to buy stuff.

The players are NOT bound to this system !!!

This is just a manner that we (staff / plot) can use to attempt to buy things
from the players at a predictable rate. It also gives us a baseline that we can
use for NPC's to buy things with. We will use these numbers and tell and NPC
to accept a range of price - then the haggling begins ...

==================================

There has been quite a bit of side discussion about all of this,
and I honestly am not entirely sold on this - but I want to try it.

What I don't want is to establish a situation where anyone uses a formula,
and says "A longsword is worth <blah> : You're charging too much."

In the end, I believe the values should be whatever the markets will bear.
But it has become evident that we need to push the NPC-side of the market
more, to support the game economy a bit better. We've done it on a wing-and-a-prayer
for quite a while now. We're gonna try this and see how it goes.

I would appreciate thoughts and feedback - most esp. after the upcoming event -
to know if it helps, hurts, or does not make any difference at all.

-Chris


ArthurMacBride Offline
#2 Posted : Wednesday, September 09, 2009 10:24:44 AM

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Are rations / sustenance tokens / produce / meat figured into this?
Omega 377th Reef Marines
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Varius Offline
#3 Posted : Wednesday, September 09, 2009 7:51:09 PM

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That's an interesting question since it takes more SU to create an Apprentice Sust Token than a Master one thus using these calculations, they are higher priced.

But that is a rather unique situation. I'm sure there is a work around solution.


Dwayne
Assume no malice.
Assume no altruism.
Salvadore Offline
#4 Posted : Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:01:31 AM
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How does it relate to raw material prices? The empire normally doesn't buy crafted goods, only in special cases. But they do buy refined materials from all comers.
Salvadore Diaz
C.E.O Sweet Rock Mining Consortium
Merchant Guildmaster
Asylum Colony
Master Bladesmith, founder, Wood/bonesmith, Solutio, Conjuctio
Fine alchemy, weapons and firearms for sale. No job is too small, no fee too big!
Varius Offline
#5 Posted : Thursday, September 10, 2009 7:59:17 PM

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I'm gonna bet that the Empire's pricing for raw materials (Steel, Fiber, Bone, etc...) will be just what we pay, half the production cost in guilda (Steel=2.5₪, Fiber=1.5₪, Bone=1₪, etc...).

I think the NPCs Chris was referring to will be mainly Locals and/or Tourists and such who are looking for finished goods.


Dwayne
Assume no malice.
Assume no altruism.
Zhinn Offline
#6 Posted : Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:38:40 PM
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My basis of thinking was the ratio of 1 guilda for 4 raw SU.
When it comes to buying refined resources, I would think that 1 for 2 would be right.

These numbers will be used for sending in contracts from off-world entities primarily.
I want a way that we can actually have PC crafters and merchants be able to sell
thier items. There is only so much need within the actual IG economy.
With maintenance, most players are aquiring Master work items that at most will
need to be replaced once a year.

If things go as I hope, you will be finding more demand for crafted items,
of course the flip side is trying to have more things for you all to spend money on.

That one is still in process ...

-Chris

PS : As far as Sustenance Tokens go - assume the costs that Wil charges include
some form of Imperial subsidy to help the colony stay fed ...

Salvadore Offline
#7 Posted : Friday, September 11, 2009 1:12:24 AM
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Whenever we get an update to standard pricing I always meet it. So expect me this coming event to charge "standard imperial prices". We'll see how it goes, I like the look of it first off. I just wanted to know if there we updates to the normal pricing of raw materials.
Salvadore Diaz
C.E.O Sweet Rock Mining Consortium
Merchant Guildmaster
Asylum Colony
Master Bladesmith, founder, Wood/bonesmith, Solutio, Conjuctio
Fine alchemy, weapons and firearms for sale. No job is too small, no fee too big!
Varius Offline
#8 Posted : Friday, September 11, 2009 2:44:56 AM

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I have a question.

Can a Master craftsman create lesser quality items?

I mean, if the customer using this system of calculating these prices wants Apprentice items, will they take Master quality items at the same price?

Here is an example:

Suppose the customer wants an Iron Sword (as above) and is willing to pay 35 ₪. If they go to Sal, who is a Master Bladesmith, all he can offer them is a Master quality Iron Sword. If he is willing to sell the sword to them for the 35 ₪ that they are willing to pay, would they accept? They'd be fools not to. BTW: it is only an 8 ₪ difference.

Personally, I think you should be able to create items beneath your level better than someone actually at that level.


Dwayne
Assume no malice.
Assume no altruism.
Salvadore Offline
#9 Posted : Friday, September 11, 2009 7:21:16 AM
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Yes, you have always been able to downgrade your craftmanship. So you could infact sell a cratefull of apprentice guns to the natives if you'd like as a master founder.
Salvadore Diaz
C.E.O Sweet Rock Mining Consortium
Merchant Guildmaster
Asylum Colony
Master Bladesmith, founder, Wood/bonesmith, Solutio, Conjuctio
Fine alchemy, weapons and firearms for sale. No job is too small, no fee too big!
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